Brainstorming - backup range and dryer.

[Lilburner]

As I get closer to being largely solar-powered in an all-electric home, some burning questions arise.

AC is a priority. If the draw is problematic, I can lock myself in a room with a room AC. Heat is kind of a non-issue except for having to open windows to let it out.

The next biggest boogers to all-electric are the range and the dryer. (and the well pump, which I'm supplementing with rainwater).

The problem becomes "They're a high draw on electricity, but electricity is renewable. Propane is finite no matter what".

The solution I've kind of stumbled on is a favorite saying of mine. "Why not both"?

Apparently I collect propane now. I already had some 100 lb tanks along with some 20s, and now I'm the "neighborhood propane tank guy" - some of you have seen my truckloads of propane tanks I get for $10 (sometimes free!). Now I find you can run both ranges and dryers off grill tanks.

So I'm thinking once my barn is built, get a secondhand propane dryer and a secondhand propane range and put them down there. Then I can choose on a day-to-day basis to use either electric or propane on my high draw items. If it's spring/fall - 65 and sunny - I can cook and dry in the house. If it's gloomy for any period of time, I can use the propane appliances - or neither - holding off for nicer weather. Of course if it's sunny but 95 and I'm trying to run AC, electricity will be at a premium as well. Of course then there's deeper backups - line drying, solar oven, rocket stove, etc. But the more layers of backup the better, and the more normalcy you maintain, the less things will suck.

If I have backups for all my largest draws except AC, LED bulbs, laptops, and ham radios will go a LONG way.

[upacreek]

Someone had mentioned getting boat or RV appliances since they use DC and have less big bang draws at start up (those are the technical words).  Solar guys could probably make more sense of that than me.

[Lilburner]

Startup loads are more of a problem for generators and small little borderline/portable solar systems. They're so brief they're not a huge enough detriment to whole house solar to plan around it. It's just a momentary blip. Same with a lot of things - air conditioners, refrigerators, etc. It's a concern for generators because  although the power's no more than an immediate blip, if the power's not there, it will shut down the generator. Or... Actually I'm not sure what all happens - if it can damage the appliance or not.

So that's definitely a consideration, but just not for my application.

[RWS]

When I built my house, I wired it for an electric dryer.  The problem was I did not own one.  In fact I have been married 49 years and have never owned a dryer.  They are just not essential.  I use a S O L A R clothes dryer.  It is also known as a clothes line.  I hang them outside on the line.  The clothes line should be your primary and any other as backup.......
Every BOL should have tee posts, line and clothes pins & spare clothes pins whether you use them or not....

[Lilburner]

That's all a matter of priorities and preference. There are two things, sheets and towels, that I prefer to be line dried. But I don't. I just never have time. Shirts are okay. But I wouldn't want socks and underwear line dried.
 
Of course the perception of time will be completely different in SHTF. When the only thing that matters is surviving, you have a lot more time to spend on it.
 
Then too, I'm trying to set up so the apocalypse should be as least impactful as possible. The more conveniences and comforts you can retain, the better you can focus on what all you need to do.

[John Galt 1]

First keep in mind that my solar project started with plans to sell extra power back to the grid and maintain a small emergency battery bank capable of running the well pump and a few small things if the grid went down.     But the local utility changed the payment amounts for buying excess power so I never installed the 2 way meter and instead enlarged my battery bank to store extra electricity.      I also added a 2 head mini-split to use some of the extra power.       Mini-splits work well with solar with their inverter based compressors and can provide some heat too.

While most of my house is solar powered my stove and clothes dryer are directly connected to the grid.      They simply use too much electricity for my solar system to handle except on the sunniest days.     

Having the grid still providing some of my electricity allows me to have the grid as a backup for long periods of poor sun.       But if I don't use at least some grid supplied electricity the power company would charge me a monthly service charge to maintain the lines.      Since the stove and dryer use about $24 in electricity a month (my average grid electric bill) I advoid that monthly service charge and keep the grid as a backup for long streches of poor sun.      My inverter automatically switches me to grid power when it sees my batteries getting below about 75% charge.     This battery discharge amount is programable and if the grid is down the inverter keeps me on the batteries.        When the sun comes back out the inverter automatically puts me back on sun/battery power.

If the grid is down (not an uncommon occurance where I live) we simply hang the clothes to dry.       The oven doesn't work but the microwave, toaster oven, hot plate, and Insta-Pot all provide solar powered electric cooking.      In addition I like to cook with wood and use several wood fueled cookers regularly.        Had wonderful pizzas last night, a casarole with fresh bread a few days ago, and a wood smoked pork butt last weekend, all cooked on the back deck using wood.

The local propane company ran a program a few years back and gave me a free Rheem 8.5 gallon per minute instant on hot water heater if I agreed to buy propane from them for 3 years.       My current propane tank is only 120 gallons but we can go about 12 months before refilling.      I'd like to someday bury a larger tank and put the clothes dryer and stove on propane but then I'd either lose my grid backup or have to start paying a monthly line maintance fee.

Anouther advantage of a larger propane tank is that I would have the option of using a propane powered generator to supliment my solar system during long periods of poor sun if the grid was down.

I currently have a standard 1.5hp well pump but someday when it dies I'm installing a low start surge Grundfos pump.

[Lilburner]

Good points.

I planned a grid-tie system, then rejected it due to the complexity of a hybrid off grid/grid tie system and the low rates for buyback.

Another thing I'm looking at is a whole house LP generator as a backup to solar to charge the batteries. This would keep me independent in grid down for the duration of my propane stores. Also in the cards is a PTO generator to supplement power with diesel fuel. Like a lot of my systems, Plan A, Plan B, Plan C...

During normal use, utilizing a whole house generator to supplement solar could get me off the grid, but, and this is a weird but, I have a street lamp that lights up the whole cul de sac. I pay a flat fee for it, and it doesn't go through my meter.

It sounds like a weird priority, but it burned out once, and being the middle of nowhere, it was so super dark it was a little off putting.

I'd like to maintain enough of an electric service to keep that running during grid up. In SHTF, the darkness could be an asset. But that could just be the AR10 with night vision talking.

[ChristianJ]

Wood stove and clothesline.

[John Galt 1]

Good points.

I planned a grid-tie system, then rejected it due to the complexity of a hybrid off grid/grid tie system and the low rates for buyback.

Another thing I'm looking at is a whole house LP generator as a backup to solar to charge the batteries. This would keep me independent in grid down for the duration of my propane stores. Also in the cards is a PTO generator to supplement power with diesel fuel. Like a lot of my systems, Plan A, Plan B, Plan C...

During normal use, utilizing a whole house generator to supplement solar could get me off the grid, but, and this is a weird but, I have a street lamp that lights up the whole cul de sac. I pay a flat fee for it, and it doesn't go through my meter.

It sounds like a weird priority, but it burned out once, and being the middle of nowhere, it was so super dark it was a little off putting.

I'd like to maintain enough of an electric service to keep that running during grid up. In SHTF, the darkness could be an asset.

Assuming you've already got grid power at the house most inverters can be hooked to it without selling back to the grid for just the cost of the wire.      It gives you a backup power source when the batteries are getting low.       That's what I'm doing.
A whole house generator is expensive as a backup to your solar.       I'd go with a small propane powered generator (charge up the battery bank) and a 250+ gallon propane tank.     Between the solar and generator you should be good for years of grid down electricity.      Make the propane tank a little larger and you can also use it for some long term cooking.

But if you're prepping for an EMP type event you may lose both the solar and generator inverters.

My property also has one of those street lamps powered by the line that powers the building where my business is so the $13/month is tax deductable.      It's in a field between my shop and the house.       I hate the damn thing, it makes it harder to see the stars but my wife likes it.

[Lilburner]

I think the whole house systems are pretty reasonable. The big advantage is longevity of design. Portable generators are meant to be used for say 8-12 hours a day for 3-5 days maybe 2-4 times a year.

Whole house and military generators are designed for constant, long-term use. I'd love a military generator, and you can get them cheap with low hours. But there's no 1-800 number on the side to call when something goes wrong. They're dependable on the whole, but notorious for lack of parts availability.

Some people call themselves "belts and suspenders guys". When it comes to some things, I'm  belt, suspenders, glue, and staples guy. Ultimately I want to be able to power my home with solar, gasoline, propane, and diesel. I looked into wood gasification, but it just disappeared around 2014-2015. No more videos, all the sources are out of business... My THEORY is that it gums up engines so people got kinda over it. If I were a candidate for wind or hydro, I'd add that, too.

[John Galt 1]

What does your solar guy say about integrating a whole house generator into the house system?

[RWS]

What does your solar guy say about integrating a whole house generator into the house system?

If He used a Connex XW6848 inverter it has a generator start module accessory that will start & run the generator, charge the solar battery and turn it off again all unattended.

[Lilburner]

I've got the notes somewhere on the system he's using, but a connection like that would make installation a no-brainer.

[John Galt 1]

If He used a Connex XW6848 inverter it has a generator start module accessory that will start & run the generator, charge the solar battery and turn it off again all unattended.

I believe Lilburner is going to install a Radian inverter which should also automatically start his generator.       

Doing a little research.      240v, pure sine wave, and auto start requirements really limits the selection.      Most people I know don't use auto start .

This is the least expensive quality unit I can find.      I'm assuming that the Inverter would handle the switching function.   
https://www.norwall.com/products/11kW-Generac-Guardian-70311-Home-Standby-Air-Cooled-Generator/?msclkid=a81a7039838012e107df2c0ee6a7ba7d&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20Gnr&utm_term=4582352150492480&utm_content=Air%20cooled%2F

[Lilburner]

Yeah the Generacs are kinda the go-to. There's also an 8K which would probably be plenty.

Interestingly, a lot of people buy them, never even take them out of the box, and sell them. I've seen NIB ones go for $1K. If the connection is on the inverter, it should be an easy DIY.