Southeastern Preppers Network
Prepping => Economic => Topic started by: ProGeek on November 13, 2016, 02:01:35 PM
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I'm not new to prepping, but there has always been a conundrum about how to best protect your money during TEOTWAWKI. Most agree that the stock market is maybe not the best place. Many say precious metals gold and silver, but that seems to fluctuate wildly based on what the stock market. I've see gold and silver go up when the market goes up, and down when it goes down. Also, sometimes it goes up when the market goes down. It seems to be as unpredictable as the markets. Some say keep cash so you can buy up things after the market swings down. Basically, buy low concept. Having cash can have it's advantages unless there is a currency collapse and it looses value fast. Land has ups and downs too. You don't want to buy it in an up market because it will loose value. It can generate income, but you have to pay taxes on it and maintain it. So any income may be lost or you can run out of cash an loose it. Then there are barter items like booze, wheat, eggs, canned food, etc. These seem to only be good when everything else is mostly worthless.
All that said, is it even possible to preserve some wealth? I think yes, but you need to diversify and be ready to sell or buy as events occur that make the prices swing up or down. Try to buy on the downs and get out when it peeks or just when it starts to go down. When gold or silver goes way up, sell some. If you miss the drop, don't sell at the bottom. If cash looks to be going down, sell ASAP and buy gold or sliver or guns before the prices jump. If it collapses it probably won't recover for a long time, if ever. The key is to invest is many things, but not where you don't have any cash on hand to pay the bills or taxes. Good luck!
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The trick to any investment is to never have all your eggs in one basket and to diversify. (yes a little pun as well)
The other thing is to use the theory of dollar cost averaging, instead of trying to hit things at a high or a low. When you buy at what you think is a low, it could always go lower...same on selling on the highs. if you buy a little at a time on a regular basis, the change in price will be averaged across your entire investment. This works for just about everything we normally consider an investment. (gold, silver, bullets, guns, property, etc)
I put a little money out of each check into things like gold and silver, a little more in an alternative currency called bitcoin (use could buy Canada dollars or Euros if you wanted) and a little bit into my preps for food and other things that are needed. You could do the same thing with buying bullets. There was a place that you could online order $20.00 worth of bullets of your choice each month and they would send you what you requested automatically. This way its a little bit coming out of your pocket each month.
Just some thoughts. I am sure others have their ideas.
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bitcoin is great for some things. I purchased some electronics direct from china a few years ago. I could pay with credit cards, but the fees were high, I could use a bank wire but there was a hold period for several days, maybe 10 or 15 if I remember correctly, or I could use btc, almost no fee, almost instant transfer and it shipped the same day.
I understand why a lot of guys don't like or trust it, but really does have it's place and it's much easier to spend than most people realise.
if you're the paranoid type, btc laughs at capital controls, border crossings and security check points.
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Overstock.com takes bitcoin as payment and there are other places that do as well. I was visiting Canada and actually ran into a Bitcoin ATM machine. You could buy Bitcoin or exchange Bitcoin for currency on the spot.
Its not main stream everywhere, and it have highs and lows, so its not a stable market, but I am only putting in $50.00 a month, and I tend to use it as my Christmas fund and order everything from Overstock.com.
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Adding to the whole discussion is this news today...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-16/war-cash-intensifies-citibank-stop-accepting-cash-some-branches
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I too am putting a little into btc. It's my "hidden" money as I use BitWage to direct deposit some of my paycheck. The money never touches my banks.
BTC is good to hide your purchases from the mega banks (visa, mc, & amex), not good during a EMP ;D
Gold & Silver is good for long term protection, but poor in the immediate after an event. Food and cigarettes would make better barter currency for the first months. Once little markets materialize, then metals might work.
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FYI, gold has dropped for $1300 to $1208. That's a big drop in the past couple of weeks. If it drops much under $1200 I may get some. ;D
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btc is also double the price of gold. it's been on a tear this year. absolutely incredible. coin base shows almost 2,300$ right now
https://www.coinbase.com/
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Bitcoin always loses me at "grid down". Am I missing something there?
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well, do you use a tv, cell phone, laptop, internet, bank account, credit card, modern vehicle, air conditioner or refrigerator?
none of those things will work when the grid is down, after the solar flares or russian emp attacks, I don't see why btc is different.
we all use those things even though we know they rely on technology. we all use a roof even though we know it will leak one day.
in order for btc to be destroyed all computer data world wide would need to be destroyed, including off line back ups.
because of that it's more redundant that your bank. no one has a back up copy of their bank records on their laptop or in their safe. their are millions of copies of bitcoin's records spread around the world.
in your normal, local short term. local grid down situations I found that it doesn't matter if btc is down because most stores don't open w/o power. everything runs on computers, if they can't do their inventory, they are not going to open. gas stations need power for their pumps to run.
I went through a few hurricanes, cash, visa and silver were useless because almost everything was closed, especially for the first couple days. it's funny but since the cell towers were up, btc was up. I could still use btc from my phone in a blacked out, flooded town.
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I'm not knocking it, particularly in relation to banks, et al.
I question its popularity in prepping alongside tangible goods, in part because I don't understand it.
Wonder if there'd be any interest in a class. I'm thinking there would.
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I agree w/ Lilbrner - I would be interested in a class and learning more about bit coin. I wonder if anyone @ TruPrep has any experience w/ it and could give an intro class. After the collapse, money will probably still be good, it will just be very hard to get out of a bank - ATMs probably won't work. Whatta ya think of putting $ in a mylar bag w/ oxygen abs, seal in PVC pipe, & bury it in backyard w/ a weapon & ammo???
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You'll want to have some cash on hand, of course.
It's like anything - diversity.
I don't know how popular an opinion it is among preppers, but I'm betting as much or more on nothing ever happening. At least without some notice. So I have money working for me in the meantime that I'd lose in a total collapse. But then I'm OK that way, too.
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nj_m715,
"I went through a few hurricanes, cash, visa and silver were useless because almost everything was closed, especially for the first couple days. it's funny but since the cell towers were up, btc was up. I could still use btc from my phone in a blacked out, flooded town."
I would be very interested in learning what you learned by actually going thru a disaster - what was really important, what wasn't, what others needed, and how they acted and reacted. I've heard from electric power crews and disaster relief personnel that were involved afterward, but not from someone who actually rode the storm out. You could give me a great deal of intel on what actually works in a hunker down situation. Are you going to be at the TruPrep social this Sat? Thx for all of your help.
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Went through 3 weeks without power in AUGUST (!) in mid-Florida after a '78 or '79 hurricane. I was already a girl-scout type prepper so food, water & cooking were good.
What I missed most was being able to get completely clean at least twice a day in that heat. I've since bought a few solar showers and about 5 packs of those cheapie washcloths you can get at Walmart, like 18 for $5 or so. And that's separate from my stash for when the TP runs out, haha. I also bought a few battery operated small fans (not the real small personal ones), the ones that run on 8-10 D cells, but give you a breeze all night. Used to have store a bunch of those but with all the solar now, you can recharge them during the day.
None of my neighbors had a manual can or bottle opener.
But folks were different 40 yrs ago, everyone shared and helped each other out. There was no screaming for the gov't to come and save us. The good thing, if that can be said, about a hurricane was that everyone knew it was coming and started stocking up at least a week beforehand, so there was no last minute bare shelf craziness.
As for cash, nearly everyone had some on hand, we weren't the credit card/ATM society back then. And we knew it was local thing so power WOULD eventually come back on. Someone got the brilliant idea to make a couple of runs to towns an hour or so away, rotating the trips amongst those who had the gas (saving gas by taking orders for others on shopping items) & kicking in a buck for gas from those who placed 'orders'. Some loaned $20 or so to those who were short. Simple, witnessed IOUs took care of things. We were in a nice MH community, people just weren't such animals and we mostly dealt with those we knew. It just happened.
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I agree. Those 18/$3.99 washcloths are a top 10 prep. I've got at least 10 sealed packs.
I actually use a lot of them, too, in the interim. I hardly use paper towels at all. I keep a big supply of washcloths and use them instead. Some of them get stained, but as long as they're in a place designated as "clean", I use them for whatever. Bathroom, kitchen, basement, shop, whatever. Being single, yeah I may wash my face with a washcloth that was once permanently stained by an oil change. LOL
I save up the dirties and wash them all in a big batch - wash them twice in a row - both with bleach and presoak.
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I used to live close to philly, so we didn't get hit bad. tbh we were more effected by several bad winter storms in the past. the shore and parts of nyc had it bad. being that far in land, hurricanes were just a long thunder storm for us. expect a few trees to come down and expect the power to go out. we only lost power for a day or 2. when the lights came back on the stores reopened.
heck, right after we moved here we went 3 days w/o power from an ice storm.
any basic preps will get you through, a bit of food, paper plates, plastic cups are nice and some form of power is great. even that 100$ harbor freight 2 stroke generator or a power inverter can do a lot.
as far as bitcoin goes, I'm no expert, but I have a good grasp of it. I used to run a few mining rigs, so you get to know it pretty well.
If anyone has any questions I can answer them or at least point you in the right direction. how to buy, how to use it, how to make a paper wallet etc.
prepping wise, I look at it as digital gold. it's "money" outside of the banking system, like gold. it's not easy to find, freeze or seize like stuff inside the system. it doesn't care about laws, borders or capitol controls.
it's like cash because it can be use anonymously under the table or officially. for example you could pay your handyman with cash, silver or bitcoin and no one needs to know. sure the transaction will be on the public ledger, but that doesn't mean your personal information needs to be attached to your wallet id.
there are ways to be even more anonymous but I never needed to use them.
even if it's not directly accepted at a store, you can buy a digital gift card/visa card instantly and spend the visa card. it's not something I do everyday, but if I lost my wallet or other wise ended up with nothing but my phone I still have a way to spend money.
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BTC is how I buy things I don't want "them" to know I bought.
Like using cash to buy supplies, I use BTC to buy services like VPN and email, things that you cant use cash for.
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7,400$ BTC!! up 10X so far this year.
I moved most of my btc into cold storage. there's a couple ways to do it. I can help you guys out if you if you're thinking about it.
there are a lot of key logger viruses out there. even if you run anti-virus your coins might be a risk.
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I am thinking that when, not if, SHTF occurs, the banks will close. Two weeks after the banks are closed and people realize they are not going to reopen, gold & silver coins will be a good item to have hold of. They will become the currency of choice (in my opinion). Food and water will soon become very tradeable also.
My question is, Should we take notice of news articles like this??
https://www.newsmax.com/finance/mikefuljenz/central-banks-gold/2018/12/10/id/893881/
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I am thinking that when, not if, SHTF occurs, the banks will close. Two weeks after the banks are closed and people realize they are not going to reopen, gold & silver coins will be a good item to have hold of. They will become the currency of choice (in my opinion). Food and water will soon become very tradeable also.
If actual cases where the banks closed around the world are anything to go by I suspect that in the inner cities you'll see rioting within a few days of the banks closing. And things will really get bad if the monthly government checks stop.
I suspect things will get so bad so quick in urban areas that even bullion will not be to useful. It will simply be to dangerous to go out and trade.
Now let's consider the value of that silver coin in a rural area with farmers farming. Before that silver coin was worth about $15 and that farmers heifer was worth about $600. But the farmer has 60 heifers and calves, another 80 cows, and no way to preserve or transport the meat and the cows will soon overgraze his fields as they grow larger. In addition the farmer has little ability to hay his fields to keep the cows healthy over the winter so having too many cows will cost the farmer money. The same thing goes for a farmer with a silo full of grain, the grain will go bad within 6-12 months without the air circulation fans running.
Consider a pullet or broiler (chickens) house with 12,000 pullets and no more feed coming in.
Without modern transportation their value may go down.
Bullion may go up in value but other things such as allergy meds or a cigarette lighter may be worth even more.
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My BIL is a finance guy and not a prepper but he has some junk silver and he keeps rolls of coins around. He was telling me that with them being and actual metal they will still have value. This from a guy that figures that it won't take long for things to straighten out.
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Bullion may go up in value but other things such as allergy meds or a cigarette lighter may be worth even more.
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Camping Survival has a cigarette lighter on sale. Actually 3 for, so I ordered last week. They use a generated spark, battery is rechargeable. That in addition to all the other fire starter contraptions I have accumulated..
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The problem is that we don't know and can only speculate. If you are the guy with the resources, you need people that have something you want in trade. If they have nothing you want, there is an impasse.
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Things get crazier every day. A few years ago if you told me a bank would close your business accounts because they did not like what you were selling, I would say " YOUR CRAZY" absurd ! But it appears that just happened. Will it become a trend ? Most likely....
https://www.dcclothesline.com/2019/02/11/chase-bank-closes-trump-supporters-account/
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I have a credit card with Chase, I might have to close it and find a different company to give my business.
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You want to know what it will be like talk to any Russian that was in soviet union during the collapse. A friend of mine was there for the collapse. He has very interesting stories of being in line to buy bread and the price and currency changing 3 times waiting in line. Inflation rising up to 140% in minutes, employers unable to pay workers for services because there money was in the banks that no longer existed. No loans, they had to pay cash for everything using other currencies.
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Chase is up to it some more. Are they going to close all conservatives accounts? Seems like they would have a hard time making any money.....
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/02/financial-tyranny-chase-bank-shuts-down-personal-account-of-vocal-trump-supporting-us-army-combat-vet/
I think these guys should get together and SUE bigtime...
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I think Chase Bank is going to ruin itself.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/02/now-this-chase-bank-suspends-conservative-jewish-activist-laura-loomer-from-her-online-banking-account/
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I like to diversify my money, in hand gold and silver coins, ammo, seeds,and books that teach living skills. I have zero money in any banking or paper money, and certainly wouldn't put any in bitcoin, as that will evaporate as soon as the web crashes, and I don't believe there is any real backing of it at all.
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I have a credit card with Chase, I might have to close it and find a different company to give my business.
It is getting worse. Bank of America just closed all the accounts of a church because they were pointing out that homosexuality was an abomination according to the Bible.
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A few honeybee hives may be a good investment.
Honey, antibiotic salve, candle wax, mead to trade. Lots of good stuff you can use today and if the grid goes down.
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Id like to believe that people, (the everyday man on the street), can see the value is certain items.... an ounce of silver, a 1/10th ounce of gold, an ounce of copper. But I also believe that in a true crisis that items that can REALLY help some one out are important too. Seeds, gloves, aspirin, tea lights, rope , twine, …. you name it also have value. Depending on the type of SHTF scenario we come up to, we should be able to have barter items and barter skills.... both are important and should be treated as an asset. Seeing the value of an item is important, acting on it could be critical. I like to go to the flea market and see how the other people are acting and what they are looking for. it helps me work on my skill.... I know that my wife is better at this than I am.... so I buy items to stock and I know that she will be able to make good trades with them when the time arises. I get to be her security guy.... I know what the trigger finger is for ….. ;) ;) ;)
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Id like to believe that people, (the everyday man on the street), can see the value is certain items.... an ounce of silver, a 1/10th ounce of gold, an ounce of copper. But I also believe that in a true crisis that items that can REALLY help some one out are important too. Seeds, gloves, aspirin, tea lights, rope , twine, …. you name it also have value. Depending on the type of SHTF scenario we come up to, we should be able to have barter items and barter skills.... both are important and should be treated as an asset. Seeing the value of an item is important, acting on it could be critical. I like to go to the flea market and see how the other people are acting and what they are looking for. it helps me work on my skill.... I know that my wife is better at this than I am.... so I buy items to stock and I know that she will be able to make good trades with them when the time arises. I get to be her security guy.... I know what the trigger finger is for ….. ;) ;) ;)
I agree. I put up a stock of clothes line wire, clothes pins and an extra set of tee poles. I just don't think I can stock enough clothes washing soap or dish washing soap. That will just have to be made as needed. I think people will still want to wash clothes and dishes along with a bath every week or so.
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The ability to make colloidal silver (it doesn't store well, long term). If you are bartering with nearby neighbors, which is most likely (avoid strangers to some degree, remain gray), ask them to provide a jar. Just provide enough to get them through an illness. Must take on an empty stomach. I think a few teaspoons of yeast in a seed packet, would be small, but have some value. I was thinking about things we grow, but every bit would have to be canned, dried or eaten fresh for health and energy. Maybe barter for variety, or in instances when one of your neighbors had an earlier or later crop of certain foods than you did. We sure could barter duck eggs! Also would try to but some under a broody hen. If the grid was up and it was an economic issue, I could hatch out ducklings and chicks for food and barter. Feeding them would be very labor intensive, in terms of growing grains. Great thing about the south is that we can produce something all year long. We sure to have some crop covers. Save and stack those gallon milk jugs if you have them and cut the bottoms off. You can string them up high in unused space.
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Bitcoin nearing $50K may be a sign of what's to come. I'm hearing about another market crash or currency crisis in the next month. You never know.
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Bitcoin nearing $50K may be a sign of what's to come. I'm hearing about another market crash or currency crisis in the next month. You never know.
Yeah, I just cleaned the bank account this week and bought the farm with two fish ponds.
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I have added some more cooper to our assets. We are also looing at our seed collection, especially our heirloom seeds. I think that we can add to "group" set locally, and find a good trading partner for eggs and the like. We are still concerned about the proposed changes to the EO's about new weapon laws, and are considering an off-site type of storage... A last ditch effort will involve a blow-out sale of all the semi-auto pistols and rifles at this homestead..... :D.... just in case.....
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A little dispersed storage never hurts.