Is anyone going to Project Appleseed Dec 2-3?

[upacreek]

Is anyone going to the Project Appleseed clinic next weekend in Blue Ridge?  I'm going and I was just curious if there were any others.

[Starlady]

A bunch of us did it as our spring campout almost 2 years ago.  It's a good thing.

Hope you have good knees!  You'll be up and down every 5 minutes.

[Lilburner]

Id love to! I still haven't repaired my rifle from last time.

I have been to two. the first time I learned 50 is pretty much a hard cutoff for iron sights. The second one I was on track to get my patch and my rifle quit ejecting at the last minute during the scoring rounds 

There's one near my BOL I'll try to hit soon - hopefully Spring. I could host someone overnight if they wanted to join me - we could work something out.

[upacreek]

Oh my gosh!!!  It was so much fun!!!  I learned a lot.  I can't wait to get to another (once my elbows heal - I've never had blisters on my elbows before).  I swear, just one more round and I would of had it.

[engineer3d]

Does anyone know what the safety issues w/ the S&W M&P 15-22s are. The reason I ask is because I have one and use it to practice w/ instead of my AR 15 b/c it's cheaper and operates identically. I prefer weapons that have an adjustable stock and a pistol grip.

Both Centerfire and 22 Rimfire allowed at this range
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY THE USE OF SMITH AND WESSON M&P 15/22’S AT AN APPLESEED ARE HEREBY TEMPORARILY PROHIBITED DUE TO RECENT SAFETY ISSUES.

https://appleseedinfo.org/find-an-event/

[Country Singer]

It seems they have an issue with firing out of battery and sometimes with the safety engaged.


Here's a write up that describes several incidents.

[Lilburner]

Oh my gosh!!!  It was so much fun!!!  I learned a lot.  I can't wait to get to another (once my elbows heal - I've never had blisters on my elbows before).  I swear, just one more round and I would of had it.

Glad you enjoyed it! I'm overdue. Maybe we can get some interest up in doing another one together. I'm not sure we'd want to completely replace another one of our regularly scheduled campouts, but as an additional activity.

I was told I might want elbow. pads. I brought some, but never used them. By the second time I went, my "shooting mat" was a foam cot liner with a quilted moving blanket on top. Kind of the Barcolounger of prone shooting.

[Lilburner]

Yeah I never head much else from  that S&W ban. That's been over a year ago. As far as I know it's still on. Can't really ask Bob Owens for an update.

[engineer3d]

TY That's very interesting. As tight as most of those trigger and hammer pins are, I don't see how they could slide out. The pins probably weren't fully seated during assembly.
The broken extractor and spring doesn't surprise me. Wes at TruPrep said the most common malfunction w/ an AR are a broken firing pin or extractor. I bought an extra bolt assembly and an extra firing pin. I can change out the firing pin, but I'm not so sure about the extractor so I'll just drop a new bolt in it and keep on rolling.
S&W highlighting the need to keep the rifle clean and only use certain types of ammunition sounds like the operator had used big box, white box, dirty, el cheapo ammo and didn't clean the barrel very well. Some dirty powder blow back could have gotten back into the sear and hammer but that's a long way.
I'll remember to clean the barrel and bolt group when I get back home. ARs are easy to break down and clean. Thx again for the info.

[Lilburner]

Serious question. I've never had one.

22LR ARs aren't gas operated, are they?

In a straight blowback 22, you want to clean the barrel as little as possible, while being meticulous with the action.

[upacreek]

All they said at the event was that S & W had to say they've fixed their issues with the 15/22's before they allowed them again.  I just read your link.  Those are some scary issues to get through and their response that it's operator error is disheartening.

I only have 10/22's or AR 15's for .223, so I can't answer you, Lilburner, other than asking another question - Why wouldn't you clean the barrel meticulously as well either way?  I've only been shooting a few years and I'm very bad at cleaning the guns (getting better).  I'd never heard of not cleaning as thoroughly as possible.

Lastly, engineer3d, my AR that I built with a lot of help from a friend has eaten 2 BCG's.  The gas key has come loose on both.  2 different manufacturers.  Both crimped.  I'm thinking it's not faulty BCG's, but something else.  Now I keep a spare BCG or 2 as well as a spare firing pin.

[engineer3d]

Lilburner,
You're absolutely right. The 22 Long Rifles I have are blowback - no gas operated piston to release the Bolt Carrier Group. You are also right about cleaning the rifling on a 22 LR. 22LR rifling is small and it's easy to get too aggressive and damage it. If you damage you rifling, you will destroy your accuracy.
But you still need to clean it. Bore snakes are fine if you can get them through the ejection port. I usually find it's easier to push rod a cleaning patch (w/ or w/o solvent), a drying patch, if powder solvent was used and a lube patch through the bore & barrel. I don't use a brass brush b/c I clean my 22s when I get home and the powder residue is still easy to remove. I don't get aggressive w/ small rifling either.
Usually cleaning the bolt face w/ a toothbrush is enough, but if you've got doubts, pull the action and clean it. A gunsmith at David's Gun Room told me, most people cause more damage to their 22 LR accuracy than the hot bullets do by cleaning too hard. Just clean the rifling easy and the face of the bolt and you shouldn't have any problems w/ your gopher getter.

[Lilburner]

Why wouldn't you clean the barrel meticulously as well either way?  I've only been shooting a few years and I'm very bad at cleaning the guns (getting better).  I'd never heard of not cleaning as thoroughly as possible.

I don't understand all the science. I'm not sure anyone does, whether they claim to or not.

A clean rifle in any caliber isn't the most accurate. In centerfire you want to take "fouling shots" prior to the money shots. These usually double as zeroing shots in hunting rifles at the beginning of a season.

APPERENTLY, modern 22s are "self cleaning", and each shot both removes and deposits the exact amount of fouling to maintain perfect balance. You have to keep the actions clean and lubricated, but the barrels take care of themselves in normal use. If you're storing one, say for years, you probably want to clean the barrel and leave a light coat of oil.

People will debate this all day long, but the tiebreaker for me was getting a Marlin 795 that suggested not cleaning the barrel right in the manual.

[Lilburner]

my AR that I built with a lot of help from a friend has eaten 2 BCG's.  The gas key has come loose on both.  2 different manufacturers.  Both crimped.  I'm thinking it's not faulty BCG's, but something else.  Now I keep a spare BCG or 2 as well as a spare firing pin.

It sounds like you're  gassy.

Did you do any kind of nonstandard build? Like a carbine barrel with a pistol length gas system?

Show your broken bits to Zak (Zach?) at TruPrep. I'm curious if an adjustable gas block might help.