How much stored food?

[John Galt 1]

New topic.

Stores are closed for whatever...        Most of us grow and can at least a tiny bit of food.    It may be veggies or meat but canning requires a lot of heat energy and leaning the ability to make 2000 calories a day per person takes time.        Some here may be able to do this immediately but I can't although the land is available; Vegies and protein.

So we all store a bit.      A bit of extra food and a bit of extra seed o help while learning.

So how much long term stored food @ 2000 calories a day to last while you learn to grow 1-2 acres per person to last long enough to expand your garden?       What supplies are needed and do you have them?       How many pounds of bean seed or potatoes to plant an acre?

Growing up in NC the Old Timers used to say it took about 1-1/2 acres of really good bottomland close to the creek to feed a person,      People who lived further up away from the creek needed a lot more land per person.

I suspect everyone here is smart enough to realize that the "hunter/forager" lifestyle isn't viable in areas as densely populated as where we live unless you intend to hunt and forage your neighbors domestic livestock;     a method of foraging I suspect would be a short career..

[nj_m715]

not exactly an answer, but I watched this last week
it's about family gardens in the USSR
they grew more in their back yards than their commercial farms produced

[John Galt 1]

NJ,     While I'm not sure about what they do today Russian farmers were always allowed an acre or 2 to personally farm to supplement what the farmer's family ate.      All the rest of the crop belonged to the country.         In a nation where there were often a lack of food by having this "private acre" in a nation where no one had private land it made a lot of people want to be farmers because farmers families ate better.       

This acre was usually at least twice as productive as the State owned acres.       During years when the State saw famine coming the State would increase the amount of land "owned" by the farmer and ignore the fact that the farmer would sell his extra crops on the "black market",      This was a way to minimize the food shortage while still allowing the state to claim it was feeding all of it's people.

More than once, a few years after the food shortages were over, the State would try to reclaim the added "private land" from the farmers private garden.      This usually ended up with a lot of civil unrest in the rural areas and wasn't always successful.

[Abigayle]

While those of us who have gardened a long time, have a leg up, crops can still fail.  We lost a good winter garden this year is that record freeze. Our greenhouse froze when the power went out without reason or notice.  Many ready to eat and close vegetables were in th 8X12 greenhouse.  I have learned to use it from floor to ceiling.
Gardening in the Southeast has pros and cons.  Usually, you can have two harvests.  In order to do that, you need fertilizer.  This can be your own compost pile, stored commercial fertilizer if you plan ahead or even fish. Don't forget manure tea.  Farmers are more that willing to share some reprocessed material from their livestock, if you don't have your own.  No pickup truck?  Take a heavy garage bag and put it on cardboard in the back of your car.  Farmers will be willing to help someone trying to plant a garden.  Hopefully they have a pile of well-rotted manure somewhere.
Be prepared to eat a lot of a few varieties of vegetables while learning.  Everything will not be available at one time no matter how good you are.  Plant a hybrid seed first. Keep a package of non-hybrid for backup.  Study seed storage while you still have internet, do it now.  Dehydrated is usually better that canned. Unless you do it yourself, canned is cheaper.
I can't grow good potatoes in Ga. to save my soul.  I have given up.  I buy boxes of dehydrated potatoes when on sale.  Right now, Kroger has them for 79 cents...run!!!     

[Abigayle]

Look up basic food storage amounts used by the Church Of Later Day Saints.  The first time I looked at it, I was shocked that the amount of oil one person needs for a year.
I do a lot of canning, I rotate and I am proud to say, I am very good at it.  I don't mind bragging because I worked my fanny off to get this good. I can put a meal on the table using jars I canned, that a very picky eater would find very enjoyable...tested .
Now, if we are hit by a tornado, this food may well be gone. We only have one house and no basement.  That was a mistake, a big one.  If you move and can have a basement, be sure to have one.
I keep instant potatoes where you boil water, turn it off and throw the package of mashed potatoes in.  I have used expired bags, they tasted fine.  If you keep them standing up in a long narrow basket, you can rotate successfully; same with rice packets. I find that winter squash here stores better for me than potatoes.  I can grow it. I buy bags of potatoes.  When I am near the end and worry about throwing them out, right now, I can mash them, make serving sizes and put them in the freezer on a try.  When frozen, throw them in a freezer bag. A few years back, I bought a hand potato peeler, non-electric with extra peel parts for a little over 20 bucks.  Unless you are pretty plush in cash, you need to just find a starting point at which you are comfortable.  Watch Sarasota Farm sales on Amazon.  Read the reviews before you jump in.  I love Mountain House, but today, it is very pricey.  Good time to can bacon, prices are down.

[John Galt 1]

We all require different amounts of calories depending on how active and what size we are.     
Working in an office my wife burns about 1300 calories a day but if she spends the day cleaning the house and some light work in the yard she burns about 1700 calories a day, bump that up to about 2000 calories a day when she would walk 40 minutes extra for exercise at the end of the day.
I never burn less than 1750 calories on a lazy day but have seen the fit-bit showing 2800+ calories on the most active days.      A fireman or solider often burns over 3500 calories.

1100 calories a day for a sedentary young man is considered "starvation level" and was often seen in WW2 prison camps.        Some of those pre-packaged emergency meal plans contain less than 1300 calories per day and even Mountain House tends to be low on calories if you follow their suggested serving size.
From my reading it is generally suggested that 2000 calories per day is the average minimum level for basic activity, not hard labor.      That's why I count the number of days of stored food by calorie count and consider 2000 calories to be one person day.

Case of 6 #10 cans
White Rice             90,000 calories so 45 days
Parboil Rice            50,000 calories so 25 days
Mixed Vegetables    12,000 calories so 6 days   
LDS Refried Beans   26,000 calories so 13 days

4 gallon Bucket of dried potatoes   15,000 calories so 7 days
4 gallon Bucket of wheat              38,000 calories so 19 days

Generally we try to stock what we normally eat like canned or frozen food or grow some of what we eat but a bit of low maintance bulk foods are worth considering in my opinion.

[Abigayle]

Good thinking, John G.  We do the same and I find it difficult to keep up with replacement and figuring amounts needed.  Another consideration is are any of us 100% sure of who will end up at our house?  Just the the game Ravenwood presented, there could be several scenarios.

[John Galt 1]

Abigayle,       I'm not sure about the game RavanWood presented, must have missed that one.

We know the set minimum we would have here.      There are also a set few who know this can be a refuge if where they live becomes untenable but all know the hard rule.      Nobody else, not a neighbor, girlfriend, and no extra food for Fluffy the cat.     As a group we've discussed this on the porch several times.

So in our case we have a hard minimum and a firm maximum number.      But if we hit the maximum stored food and sleeping arrangements will become a challenge.      Fortunately we live in a food rich area with a good bit of land that is currently being farmed by a friend who lives miles away.       In our case more people means more hands to grow food and work livestock.        Still, if the maximum number of people show up some will be sleeping in unheated areas.      Everyone is aware of this fact.

[Abigayle]

John G.  "The Best Laid Plans Of Mice And Men".  Just sayin... It is great that you have set rules and the ones you have are good ones.  I pray that whatever we face is manageable, but there are so many clueless people roaming around out there, with no plan and few skills.
For what some young women spend on nails and spray tans, they could have B.B. &Bs. but they don't even know they need them.
Young guys, what they spend to modify the speakers in their cars...same story.  At least in Ga. some of both can shoot.  I want to be hopeful that they are on the right side.
If you are reading this and don't know what to store first...Do you like oatmeal?  It is easy to store Old Fashioned Oats in a mylar bag.  Make up some dried fruit and store some dry milk.  Have water and vitamins.  I am really worried about what will happen to people.  At night, I find myself worried about those I have never met.....

[BennyMG1]

I recently had to have a hard conversation with my 80 year old mother when she said my brother had mentioned that they would just come out to our place if “the apocalypse “ happens. I told her that in no uncertain terms that I had prepared for my immediate family and could not take on any extra besides her and my dad. I’ve talked to my siblings till I’m blue in the face to no avail. They all live on a nice spot of land out in the country and have the ability to prep but choose not to. I had to tell them that I cannot support them and not to come. I’ve prepped my parents at their house (without them realizing it). Today will be the first time we’ve had a family gathering since that conversation so we will see how I am received by my siblings.

[Surveyor1]

100% agree BennyMG1!  I honestly do not think that people (family especially) do not realize the amount of sacrifices that we as preppers have made!  They think we just stored a little extra food and that’s “prepping”.  I quit trying to convince people to get prepared because if they cannot see what’s going on around the world they are not paying attention or choose to put their heads in the sand….  I’m not going to list the many things that we have sacrificed because I know most of y’all are in the same boat.  I guess I’m fortunate that my siblings are a pretty good distance away and probably have no idea exactly where I live because I know it would really create quite the dilemma if they showed up even after I told them they were not welcome!  I have always said that you cannot prep for people but I guess you could put it this way to them:  I have tried for years to make you get prepared.  If you think you are going to show up and take food out of my wife and children’s mouth you are sadly mistaken!  If you want to come to my place if TSHTF and you have not prepared here’s your option - give me a few thousand dollars to buy food and supplies for you or simply don’t show up at my door, I’m not the welfare office!

Update:  I guess you should also add - Btw that doesn’t mean that once TSHTF you can show up with your worthless money and expect to be welcome, that’s why it’s called “being prepared”!

[Surveyor1]

John Galt, good info to have on the caloric needs and counts.  I’ve looked at a lot of different options for adding calories.  Meat is always a good source of calories but since I grew up in a rather large family our serving size of meat was always very small.  A few things we always had was biscuits and cornbread.  Each serving has about 200 calorie’s depending on the recipe.  Gravy was always something we had as well.  Homemade gravy is easy to make and once again depending on the recipe can add 50 to 100 calories to any meal.  Mash potatoes, rice and biscuits are always better with gravy and is quite filling as well.  Don’t forget the pancakes and syrup, that should add about 600 calories to your diet!  We have also prepped plenty of supplies to make cobblers since we have plenty of berries, peaches and apples.  You gotta have some fun foods and at around 500 calories per cup it’s a great calorie booster especially if working hard!

One day of food:
Pancakes and syrup 500 calories
Soup and slice of cornbread 500 calories
Green beans 35 calories
Rice and gravy 260 calories
5 ounces venison cooked 200 calories
1 biscuit 200 calories
1 cup blueberry cobbler 500 calories

That’s almost 2200 calories not counting drinks, throw in a glass of powdered whey milk and a couple glasses of sweet tea and you’re sitting on about 2500 calories.  As you can see it would be very easy to add calories to this menu if you needed the extra calories for your work load.  I mean let’s face it, who’s going to only eat one homemade biscuit 🤔😳😎…

[Ravenwood1950]

I too have been ‘a voice crying in the wilderness’ my whole adult life. I have been telling anyone that says “I am coming to your house when the poop hits the fan”. I smile at them and firmly add, “Then be sure you bring your year’s supplies with you”.
How anyone can not make the effort to provide for those they love is totally beyond my comprehension. I am getting close to the age where if anyone loves me they would be thinking of how they could care for me. But it still seems “if it is to be , it’s up to me”. Ha ha story of my life. ❤️
Ravenwood

[John Galt 1]

Surveyor,     I agree that 2000 calories is light for the average adult (male / female average) if they are doing hard work.      And if the stores are all closed everybody on this place will be working hard to provide more food, heat for cooking and home heat, and security.       Just growing food for the livestock would be a hard physical challenge even with the birds free ranging.     

The idea of using 2000 calories a day is a basic method of keeping track of emergency food and assuring that at least a minimum amount of food is available per person-day.       Think of all the people who look in their pantry and see all those cans and boxes of pasta and sauce and think they have a month's worth of food.      Or those people who bought one of those Wise food kits that says it will feed them for 90 days.     90 days at 1300 calories a day; basically starvation levels.       Or a few totes of Mountain House meals thinking that  "dinner for two" will actually provide 1000 calories per person.

I use the 2000 calorie a day measurement to help make sure I don't fall into those traps.      We are fortunate to live in a food rich area and have a few cows, chickens and gardening to supplement what little extra we have stored up.

[John Galt 1]

August 1st, too late in the season to grow any meaningful crop until the following June for most of us.        That's 9 months with most of the deer and rabbits gone by February from over hunting.

Ravenwood,        You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.     
You can't protect that horse either if you have a colt to protect at the same time.

This property has had a few regular visitors over the years, usually my adult son's friends, who have announced that it SHTF happens they are coming here.
Every time I look them dead in the eye and say "No, you aren't".   
Message sent.      Message firmly received.
All preps are out of sight yet somehow a few have trigged to the knowledge that we have put a bit extra away.      That or maybe it's just the solar panels not visible from the road out back.